I never met Tim Yancey
before. In fact, I had only talked to him
once on the telephone well over a year before
as we discussed Waverly Hills here in Louisville
and how I thought that particular "haunted
location" was the goose that laid the
golden egg as far as the owners were concerned
seeing as how it had managed to take in untold
amounts of money as a "non-profit"
organization over the last few years. But
when he offered me the opportunity to appear
on his Sunday evening radio program out of
West Palm Beach, Florida broadcast on 1230
WBZT to discuss the past two years and our
efforts in exposing fraud in the paranormal
industry, I gladly took him up and accepted
the invitation. Please Also see Tim
Yancey, Trish Yancey, And Jason Gowin - Just
The Facts!
Tim had been in Louisville
a few weeks before as part of the 2008 Mid-South
Paranormal Convention hosted by Keith Age
and the Louisville Ghost Hunters Society.
My wife had e-mailed him about two weeks prior
to this and he talked about meeting us in
person while he was here. We were under the
impression he was going to contact us since
it was he who had a schedule to keep regarding
the convention, but he later said he thought
we were going to contact him instead. Whatever
the case, the face-to-face meeting never materialized,
and I had been warned the previous year if
my wife or I happened to show up at the convention
in person we would be escorted out by the
proper "authorities" according to
a certified letter we received from Keith
Age and his second-in-command Dale Clark.
This was because we had an active campaign
designed to tell the truth when it came to
Mr. Age and his various claims pertaining
to the paranormal and his associations with
the famous and the important, something which
Mr. Age excelled in embellishing. Or, usually,
just outright lying about. But that's neither
here nor there I suppose. We weren't allowed
at the convention, so meeting Tim Yancey there
was out of the question.
So, as the case may be,
Tim Yancey offered me the chance to debate
him on his show. I accepted the challenge.
Tim it seems was upset that I had declared
him an entertainer and I seriously doubted
his qualifications when it came to being labeled
a "paranormal researcher." In my
opinion, as I told him on the show, I saw
where he took the information and research
compiled by others and fashioned it into a
presentation he gave that entertained the
paying public. Tim argued the point telling
me he was indeed a researcher and went on
to say how he had researched the so-called
"Amityville Horror" for the past
five years. I sent him a follow up e-mail
asking him seven specific questions pertaining
to Amityville that he neglected to reply back
on. During the show I asked several of these
questions. More about that later. I was invited
on his show not to expose the frauds in the
industry, but to debate Tim Yancey on his
qualifications to call himself a "paranormal
researcher." So be it. I figured I could
do that just as easily.
While I was getting ready
to appear on the show, the day before I sent
out an e-mail to Tim with copies going to
about three dozen other people just checking
on the status of my appearance. I did this
because in the past two individuals, Steve
LaChance and Ed Craft, both offered me the
opportunity to appear on their respective
programs only to pull the rug out from under
me later fearing the questions I would ask
and the tone the debate would have. To Tim's
credit however, I was allowed on his program
that Sunday evening with no preconditions
and the show got underway promptly at 9 P.M.
east coast time. People in a five county area
surrounding West Palm Beach could pick up
the broadcast on their AM radios, while the
rest of the world could get a live, steaming
version, via the internet.
I called the studio about
five minutes before air time and his producer
answered the phone. He took down my name to
confirm I was the evening's guest. Satisfied
with my information, I was placed on hold
as the opening segment was being broadcast.
Within minutes, we were live on the air and
Tim greeted me and I thanked him for having
me on. Then the real work began.
After a short introduction
explaining who I was, why I became involved
in all of this, and my past involvement with
Keith Age and the Louisville Ghost Hunters
Society where I had been a member for three
years, we got down to business. Tim took offense
to my statements labeling him an entertainer
as opposed to a serious researcher of the
paranormal. I explained to him one of the
people who I respect in this "field"
if you want to call it that, Dr. Tim Harte
of Illinois, told me several months back he
knows numerous people in Florida, and up until
about two years ago none of them had ever
heard of the name Tim Yancey. I went on to
say I viewed what he does as an entertainment
show that he presents at various conventions
and conferences throughout the country. Tim
countered by saying he was a researcher and
gave me an example saying he had personally
researched the Amityville story for more than
five years and that, in part, makes up the
presentation he gives the public.
The program varied back and forth at times,
but centered mostly on Tim's Amityville information
and my questions regarding that information
and what he does for a living seeing as how
he claims all of the paranormal related business
basically results in a loss for him and he
loses money at nearly every event he attends.
He wouldn't tell me or the listeners exactly
what it is he does, but referred to it as
"being in the security field." I
explained to him my wife Patti works at the
private FBO section of Standiford Field here
in Louisville and is responsible for letting
the likes of George W. Bush, Barack Obama,
John McCain, and other assorted politicians
and celebrities through the chain link gate
fencing off the airport from the rest of the
public and I'm willing to say all of that
on the radio. I told him the Secret Service
doesn't get through her gate unless they provide
some identification, and I was pretty sure
whatever he did at his job did not entail
that level of national security. However,
he still declined to state exactly what it
was his "security" work consisted
of other than to say it was in the "transportation
field." So, I dropped that line of questioning.
We talked at length over what I perceived
as Tim using the paranormal platform as a
way to sell DVD's and entice the public to
partake in the conventions he finds himself
at as a featured speaker. Tim claimed he makes
no money at any of this and stated on average
he's lost $700 at each of the five conventions
he's attended so far this year. I told him,
to me, that would be a very expensive hobby,
especially since it showed no monetary return.
I questioned him as to his earlier e-mail
in which he stated John Zaffis was collecting
$2500 at conventions he was part of and the
guys from T.A.P.S. were commanding $8500 an
appearance and said that someone was obviously
making money at this and perhaps he was not
a very good businessman when it came to cashing
in on the events. He persisted in saying he
made no money at any of this and stated it
was costing him $100 for the hour he was having
me on his show that he would have to pay the
radio station.
During the show I asked Tim several of the
questions I had posed to him earlier in an
e-mail regarding Amityville. These included
asking why it was that the local native Americans
denied the location at 112 Ocean Avenue was
ever an Indianan burial ground, as portrayed
in the film, and why "cloven hoof prints"
were reportedly seen in the "fallen snow"
outside of the house when, according to National
Weather Service records for the time, there
had been no snow in the area. Tim explained
that the book and movie had some inaccuracies
in them and George Lutz would be the first
to say so. He also went on to play two recorded
excerpts, one from the priest involved in
the case and one from George Lutz himself.
I went on to ask several other questions concerning
Amityville, including why Ronald Defeo changed
his defense several years ago and no longer
claimed the "demons" told him to
kill and why it was that his defense lawyer
once stated in a magazine interview the entire
story had been concocted over "several
bottles of wine" with George and Kathy
Lutz. Finally, I asked why it was that no
other residents of the house after George
and Kathy Lutz appeared to experience anything
paranormal in origin there and this had a
record going back nearly thirty years.
But the thing I found the most interesting
during this part of the show was how Tim Yancey
seemed to accept nearly everything George
Lutz had told him, despite the fact much of
the information had been debunked years before
by various researchers who said the story
just didn't add up. Tim mentioned the famous
Warrens that had come to Amityville back in
the 1970's and basically built a career out
of the "Amityville Horror" that
followed, and I said from my observation everyone
who ever claimed this story was true seemed
to have a stake in convincing the public it
was genuine.
We had two call-ins during the sixty minute
program, one coming from a man who said he
had met Tim Yancey on stage at the "Haunted
Hickory" convention held in North Carolina
and that Tim had "helped him with his
problems." I gave my opinion of this,
saying a psychiatrist or a psychologist may
be more in tune with helping him with his
problems than talk show host Tim Yancey. But,
I think my advice went unheeded.
In the end I can say it was a very lively
debate and I think we both scored points and
made ourselves heard. Tim will still argue
he is a researcher who makes no money at presenting
his work at numerous conventions to an audience
willing to pay money to hear it, and I will
continue to argue he is an entertainer who
entertains people who don't require a lot
to be entertained.
But, I've never said I do not like entertainers.
I do. And I think Tim Yancey is good at what
he does. We just have a difference of opinion
on just what that is.
Born in 1959 in Louisville,
Kentucky Bobby Zoeller has been interested
in the paranormal his entire life. Never having
experienced what he would term a "supernatural
event" with one minor exception, that
nonetheless hasn't stopped him from seeking
out and trying to answer questions that have
always fascinated him. Raised as a Roman Catholic,
his interest in demonic possession has always
been foremost in this field of study, but
unfortunately reliable documentation regarding
those events are few and far between. Researching
prior cases that have come to light in recent
years has not convinced him to date that the
phenomena actually exists to any great degree,
and looking over some of the more well publicized
cases he tends to doubt most of what he has
read and seen from the so-called experts that
comment on the events.
He joined a local paranormal group based
in Louisville back in January of 2003 known
as the Louisville Ghost Hunters Society headed
by Founder and President Keith Age. He later
met his future wife there and they married
in May of 2004. While a member of the organization,
he became a lead investigator with the group
and was appointed the group's Case Manager
in the fall of 2004. Both he and his wife
participated in close to two dozen on-site
investigations during their time there, and
the high profile 2004 investigation of the
Willard Library in Evansville, Indiana was
his opportunity to showcase the LGHS.
Following several questionable accounts involving
the group's president, he resigned as Case
Manager on February 28, 2006 and within a
week quit the group altogether. His wife was
removed from the group by the actions of the
president. Upon leaving LGHS and discovering
much of what he had been told in the past
and been led to believe to be facts turned
out to be mostly misinformation or outright
lies on the behalf of the group's leader,
both he and his wife undertook a campaign
to expose what they considered fraud and the
scamming of the general public all in the
name of making the group's leader famous.
Documented evidence was gathered from sources
around the country to prove their case and
the information was first displayed publicly
on an independent web site and later on two
Yahoo message groups. The web site was taken
down by the actions of the former group's
leader and the first Yahoo group disappeared
after complaints were lodged against it by
the very people it was designed to expose.
He has been fighting what he see's as corruption
and fraud within the paranormal field now
for the past two-and-a-half years, and has
had a very difficult time when it comes to
the "experts" in the field as it
seems no one wishes to speak ill of the others.
In short, he has discovered more deception
and more media manipulation over the past
two years than most people will witness in
an entire lifetime. The "experts"
refuse to answer direct questions put forth
to them, they in many cases continue to con
the public out of both their money and their
common sense, and the only reason he continues
on at this point is because he does not want
the uninformed or the more gullible members
of the public and the media conned like he
was for three years.
He currently work as the shipping and receiving
manager for a large sheet metal fabrication
plant in Louisville, Kentucky and spends his
spare time researching and exposing what he
considers fraud and deception within the paranormal
field.
If you have any questions you would like
answered or have information regarding any
high profile "paranormal experts"
that you find troubling, you can contact him
at r_zoeller@bellsouth.net.
And Please Share your
Paranormal And Ghost Hunting opinions responsibly!
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